Chiefs: On Matt Cassel

You wouldn't trade Cassel for a dime? Exactly how many games did you see Cassel play this year? My guess is very few - probably zero. If you had, you wouldn't lead with such a ridiculous statement, nor would you claim as all the other MO locals are that they had an "elite level offensive line". Cassell improved NOTICABLY in every game, and was the primary reason they won 11 games, NOT the offensive line. Their line was good, but not elite or even great. Can you lead the LEAGUE in sacks and still play behind an "elite" line? I wouldn't think so. And Cassel runs pretty well also.  

Ah, you obviously didn't see ANY games this year or you'd know Moss was NOT the same Moss we saw last year - my guess is both Bowe and Gonzales both had more yards than Moss this year. Moss was a non-factor more often than not. Nor would you call their defense 'solid'. Their defense was average/bad. As bad as the Chef's? No - they were off the charts/in a league of their own bad, but NE's was not solid by any stretch - average to below average at best. Anyway, I'm not sure how KC's defense being horrible makes Thigpen destined for the Hall of Fame, the guys job is to engineer TD drives - which he seemed at times capable of doing in the fist half of games, but much less so in the second.

I'm sure you guys are bright people - get off the NFL.com stat site and find a way to watch the last 6 or 7 Patriots games this year and I guarantee you'll change your tunes about not wanting to pay a dime for Cassel - you might even go as high as a buck. He will solve a huge problem for them, then they just have to address the other 10 or so.

 Broker1

I knew I would get a lot of flack for my comments but I stand by them.  I never said Thigpen was better. I never said Cassel was a bad QB. I simply said that what he did last year was not worth trading for. Cassel has been in the league longer and went to a big football program, so by all means he should be better. But come on, trading away a first day pick?? He is just not the guy thats gonna toss 30 TD passes every year.

The main point of my comment was that I did not see the point of trading away draft picks (which are badly needed to better this team) for a QB that is not head and shoulders above the one we have.

Never said Thigpen was "Hall of Fame" worthy.I like Cassel, and I hope he gets a chance to start somewhere (Minnesota?). But it does not make sense here

 Broker -  If you watched football, you would know that it is easier to score if you get the ball on the 50 than on the 20. Defense creates field position by forcing punts and creating turnovers therefor making it easier for the offense. It is also much more difficult to play from behind.The two are correlated (imagine that!)Moss obviously was not the same Moss (not sure whos fault that is) but was still productive and is still a threat. Welker had a monster year, even though he did not score much.The fact that you say we should trade him so we can start filling our 10 other needs means that my comment went far over your head.

Is Thigpen a better QB than McIntosh is a Tackle? Is Thigpen a better QB than Adrian Jones is a Gaurd? Thigpen better QB than whoever the hell our center is at center?What about our LB core ? or a premiere pass rusher? or a true #2 wide receiver? How bout a RB? If you watched any KC games last year, you would know that they have other more important needs to fill. We trade any combination of our picks from rounds 3 and up and we lose the opportunity to fill positions of GREATER need. Maybe down the road we need a QB, but for right now Thigpen (and maybe a drafted QB) is serviceable. 

Last 8 games Cassel 14 TD and 4 INT(if you watched 2 of those were receivers fault also), you cannot use his beginning season #'s.  BTW, the offensive line for New England is solid but far from Great.

Last 8 games of 2007 with Brady: 258 points scored

Last 8 games of 2008 with Cassel: 242 points scored

Thigpen= or better than Cassel?  Wow, that's so crazy.

1. I, nor do the Pat covet the Chiefs pick - the fact is they do much, much better with later round picks - look it up. For several reasons (cap, track record, etc) they have preferred to be in the bottom of the 1st round, not in the top 3. Would they take it? Sure, and probably trade way down - but they will not be sitting there salivating over the 3rd pick in the draft like other weak teams would - it's not the show stopper you think it is.

2. Yes, you can say that, given what I SAW last year from both, Cassel is light years ahead of Thigpen. If you think you're going to get 5-years of data on a QB before annointing him your franchise QB, you're sadly mistaken. Sometimes you have to take what you've seen, make some projections and make a decision. In this case, it's a season's worth of work

3. it won't be TWO number one's - where on earth did you pull that from?

4. Who cares about Cassel's collegiate resume? You've got to be kidding me. That's the stupidest thing I've read on this web site yet! I'm sure Pioli is telling Hunt right now "I really like Cassel, but his collegiate resume isn't that good, so lets take a pass on him." Ridiculous!

Broker1

Let's try this again.  First of all, is KCSVEN your alter ego, or love child, or what?   Oh well, it doesn't really matter.  Your Pats have currently 7 first round picks on their final 53 man roster, which did not include an eighth- Lawrence Maroney who was on injured reserve.  They had a total of 23 of their own draft picks on their roster, including 5, that's FIVE late round picks (5th round and later), or six if you want to include Brady on IR.  I would say they have had success with first rounders including Mayweather, #10 overall, Seymour # 6 overall, and Warren 13th overall.  Maybe you ought to look things up about your own team before you start blasting.  Second, this is not about who is better Thigpen, or Cassel.  Let me say that again, IT'S NOT ABOUT WHO IS BETTER!  The pat's offensive line, although they may not be the greatest, they are clearly better than KC's.  Therefore, if Cassel is getting sacked an NFL high 47 time in NE, then he may not even survive in KC.  He does not have the mobility, nor can the Chiefs protect whoever is behind center if they trade their top picks for Cassel.  It just doesn't fit.  Not a knock, just a fact.  AND NO, you cannot by any stretch of the imagination claim Cassel is light years ahead of Thigpen.  If you had that capability, you would be someone's GM, and obviously you are NOT.  Based on your comments, I doubt very much that you saw Thigpen at all, only on the highlight shows, maybe.  You need to go back and watch the KC games instead of telling us we should "get off the NFL.com stat site and find a way to watch the last 6 or 7 Patriots games."  Ifyou do, YOU would realize that Cassel would have likely been on IR.  Running "pretty well" as you put it ...3.7 yds/att.  That's running pretty well?  NO, you need a more mobile qb with that line, one that runs....oh, I don't know.... maybe 6.7 yds per carry?  That's running "pretty well."  And for my fellow Chiefs fans, please do go back and watch the last seven or eight Pats games, I'm sure Broker 1 would want you to fast forward through the Steelers and Jets games though(both of which were in Foxborough). 

As far as where I pulled 2 #1's from...do you ever go to your beloved patriots website?   http://www.patriots.com/search/index.cfm?ac=searchdetail&pid=36134&pcid=41&rss=1

And obivously you have not read much, including your own inane ramblings.  Tony G had 50 more rec. yds than Moss, Bowe had 14 more.  Congratulations, you were right.  So based on your criteria, they were both non-factors for KC as well?!?  Oh, fyi,  Moss had more TD's-11 than either Gonzalez or Bowe (10 and 7 respectively).  Seriously, you're not trying to poor mouth us about the Pat's offense are you?  I'll take Wes Welker, hell I've taken him on my fantasy team 3 years running.  I'll even take Faulk over LJ's hands of stone and horrible attitude. "He will solve a huge problem for them, then they just have to address the other 10 or so."  If you proofread, you would realize that is the "most stupidest"  (asside from actually using the pseudo word "sutpidest")  thing you read on this site.  In closing, the #3 pick may not be the "show stopper" to the Patriots, but it very well could be for KC, which is why they should not trade if for a QB who, although somewhat successful, would not have the same weapons, protection, or moderate success in KC.  Should not be that hard to understand for an intelectual like yourself.  ;-)

Seriously, who gives a rat's ass about any of this?  I can't even read your pre-school ramblings "First pick! third round pick! Late 2nd round pick!" Sounds like you need a job. LATER IN THE 1st ROUND EINSTEIN - THEY AREN'T SITTING THERE SALIVATING AT THE THIRD OVERALL PICK BECAUSE THEY DO BETTER THAN MOST IN THE MIDDLE TO LATE FIRST ROUND, FOR A HELL OF A LOT LESS MONEY.

2007 - Meriweather #24th pick, not 10 bozo. 2006 - Marony #21 pick,  2005 - 32nd pick Mankin 2004-Watson #32nd pick,  2003 Warren #13th, 2002-Graham #21st pick, 2001 Seymore #6(Yeah! you got that one right!) 2000 No 1st round pick - with #13 last year with the 10th pick it was widely speculated they'd trade DOWN because they perfer to be lower in the first round. Get it Wilbur? Why am I wasting my time?

Look, you can keep holding all the Tyler Thigpen pep rallies you want - he's gone, if not this year, then next and for one reason - they can do much better at QB than Tyler Pigpen - if he starts next year, the season will prove that.

"Oh, but what about his college resume!" - sounds to me like the closest you've come to college is driving by one on your way to a nambla meeting.

Broker1

Sorry, I did mis-speak, Mayo was the #10 overall not Merrieweather.  Of course I'm not surprised that you wouldn't point that out in your pathetic rebuttle.  I know, you still want everyone to believe that your precious pat's only need late round draft choices to field a championship team. 

To answer your questions, yes I have a job, and I have a college degree.  Was your last sentence actually you projecting?  Very likely.  As for who cares, apparently you.  But let me reiterate one last time.  It's not about who is better, but who is better for the Chiefs.  If Pioli signs several pro-bowl caliber Olinemen, and can get Cassel for a reasonable price, then yeah go for it.  But even you must have the intelectual capability (as limited as it may be) to recognize that those expectations are not reasonable, nor are they realistic.  Lastly, why are you wasting your time?  I guess you just can't help yourself.

P.S.  I hear the University of Pheonix online is accepting applications.  You just might qualify

The Chiefs need to use their #1 pick on the offensive or defensive lines, case closed. Unless Matthew Stafford is there at #3 overall, they shouldn't be using it on a QB, or trading it to get Matt Cassel. I'd rather see KC get a solid tackle to build around, and wait and see about QB's like Sam Bradford and Tim Tebow in the 2010 draft instead.

Trading some lower picks & Larry Johnson to the Pats for Cassel would make more sense to me.

Getting an offensive tackle like Andre Smith or Jason Smith, or defensive tackle B.J. Raji in the first round would do more for the Chiefs than any QB available, including Cassel.

Take the absolute best talent available in the draft-Micheal Crabtree.  Fill the necessary holes through free agency with the treasure chest of cap room available.

 The Lions are going to draft a QB, so that leaves the Rams who can take Crabtree.  If they opted for Smith, we need to take the best talent, who can make an immediate impact and is exciting.

You wrote, "I think the Vikings are more likely to poney up a #1 but a KC swapping positions in the first and throwing in a #2 or 3 may be better." ... thanks for the laugh.

The Chiefs won't be swapping first rounder and giving the Pats a (very early) second round pick for Cassel.   Where did you pull that out of?   

The Chiefs second-round pick (2nd or 3rd pick in the second round), may be too high of compensation for Cassel.  Cassel has one season in a system that went for a perfect 16-0 the year before with Brady at QB.  Before that, one can only look at Cassel's success in high school.

I am only going by what I saw - and what I saw was a QB maturing as the season went along who started to look more and more like the hall of fame QB he replaced with every game. What I saw of Thigpen was he was average at best in the first half of games and a non-factor in the second half.

The QB - Cassel in this case - is a BIG reason he was on a "very team" very good. The guy won games, and their defense lost games. Thigpen was a big reason why he was on a team that won two games and was #26 in scoring. Yes, their defense sucks, but so too does their offense.

You're suggesting flushing 2009 down the hopper and hope for Bradford when Thigpen doesn't work out? (Don't say Tebow, he's a late 1st round, 2nd round at best - maybe not even as a QB). Great idea! Because, you KNOW that WILL DEFINTELY work out. Sorry to disagree, but I'll take a young QB who has been in the league for 3 or 4 years and had meaningful time OVER a rookie regardless of how hyped he is by the media.

I love to hear those who claim that Cassel was handed the keys to a Bentley while Thigpen had to make due with a broken down, rusted bike that is the Chiefs offense. The fact is NOBODY knows who REALLY had the harder task, what we do know is ONE of the two did an outstanding job filling in while the other did not. One won games, and the other did not. One is looking at a lucrative contract because of his performance, one is not. Just because Thigpen couldn't lead his team to more than two wins does not mean he's BETTER than Cassel. You all like to think Cassel strolled into a can't miss situation, but you are wrong; he hadn't started a game since high school, was replacing a hall of fame QB who is a multi-year league MVP while the press was crucifying the coach and GM for putting themselves in this position with "only" Cassel as a backup. He was absolutely expected to fail, and for a game or two, he sure looked like he would. But he sucked it up and turned it around, and should get rewarded for it. Thigpen, on the other hand, was expected to do nothing and delivered slightly more. To think these two QBs are on the same level is ludicrous. The pro-Thigpen arguement /Anti-Cassel is as stupid a comparison as I've ever heard. You're saying Cassel is worse than Thigpen because he played great on a decent team and Thigpen is GREAT because he played below average on a worse team.

And here's another thing to consider; if Brady and Cassel are "system" QBs then you might want to consider implementing a similar "system", because the one you have now sucks.

I want the Chiefs to win more than anyone (would I be on the KC newspaper site all the time searching for bits of news if that were not true?) and I believe strongly that Thingpen is not the TYPE of QB that will take the Chiefs to the Superbowl. Will he suffice for another year, sure, but in the long run, he's not winning QB material.

Broker1

James was their backup RB most of the season, not their starter; Hightower - who's better than dirtbag LJ - is their starter. Right now "LJ" isn't worth a six-pack of warm beer. No way in the world given Warner's age (and he's been saying every offseason he was going to retire since 2004) they make that trade for the Chiefs malcontent overpaid soon to be doing time at the big house/best days are behind him bum Johnson...keep dreaming...the team goes to the Super Bowl and they decide to bring in a cancer into the clubhouse????? No way.

Broker1

i've said this before and i will say it again...this offense with thigpen scores points. we need a defense to give this guy some support. a solid d-end and a weapon or two and we are looking at 9 wins next season...easy as that.

i've said this before and i will say it again...this offense with thigpen scores points. we need a defense to give this guy some support. a solid d-end and a weapon or two and we are looking at 9 wins next season...easy as that.

[/quote]

First off lets remember that Thigpen was so inept in the Pro Style offense that we completely scrapped it and went to a gimmick scheme with limited potential to run the football effectively. Early on this scheme took teams by complete surprise but in each game as teams adapted to our approach the offense became almost completely inept by the 2nd half of games.

Consider over the last 5 games of the season the Chiefs BARELY average 5 PPG in the 2nd half. FIVE!!! That is beyond awful. People want to blame Gailey's play calling but the reality is that he was saddled with a QB who was very limited.

I like Thigpen and think he could be a valuable guy as a backup type of spark plug for the offense. Perhaps in time he would develop into a solid NFL player. But I will be very surprised with his lack of accuracy and deep arm strength to ever see him become a top tier guy in this league. Priority one for Pioli is to find that guy. Something Carl Peterson was to scared to do.

I have some major questions about Cassell but if Pioli believes enough in him to trade away a low draft pick. Who are we to argue. SP has a proven ability to find QB talent and probably knows Cassell better than anyone. What is his real interest level there? I don't see how anyone can know for sure right now. This is all complete speculation.

Below is the comparison for the last 8 games of season in which Thigpen actually was considered the starter.

Thigpen

G  Att  Com %   Yds   TD  Int  Rat

8  192  330  58  2216  16   8   84.1

Cassel

G  Att  Com %   Yds   TD  Int  Rat

8  217  350  62  2598  15   7   91.0

Which QB did the best with what was given? Lets keep in mind the strength of the offense these two QB's were playing with.

I see no reason Thigpen should not be the starter going into next season. Any trade for Cassel would be trading an apple for an apple.

Cassel went 6 and 2 (one loss was to Pittsburg, the other came when they lost the OT coin toss and their defense let them down again - he never touched the ball after the coin toss) over this same stretch, in game 16 he came out of early because they were beating the Cardinals by 31 AT THE HALF. Game 17 was played in Buffalo with temps in the single digits and 70 mph gusts. That a quarter of the selective data your using.

Look at the numbers - Thigpen does nothing in the second half - probably because teams had minimal info on him and simply adjusted at the half once they realized all they had to do was cover Gonzales and stop his running. Teams will now have that much more info on him and will surely plan for his one dimentionional play. If that happens, prepare yourself for 2 to 4 win season. But I guess you can alway fall back into the ever popular "we're in a rebuilding mode" mantra. Maybe after a couple years of futility, some will start to see the advantage of having a franchise QB that you can count on, and look else where to improve the team for once.

In the end, I'll put more stock in W's and L's and less in selective data to prove a point...you can't say "this guy is a hall of famer, but was just on a bad team that lost all the time!" - That's crap. Good teams WIN, bad teams LOSE. You WIN with OFFENSE, and the QB is the most critical position on the field.

Broker1

It was actually over a 10 game stretch. My typo for listing it as 8, which is still not a quarter of a season.....

Can only compare with what the guy actually started.

Cassel is on a team that went 18-1 the previous year.

Thigpen is on a team that went 4-12 the previous year.

I am almost willing to bet that Ryan Leaf could pull 11 wins on that Patriots team. And, lets not talk down on the Defense which ranked 10th in the NFL. The Chiefs defense?? Ranked 31st, which could be argued that the reason they lost 14 games was because of just that.

Patriots Offense:

2007 - 1st

2008 - 5th

Matt Cassel did an average job. No improvement seen.

Chiefs offense:

2007 - 31st

2008 - 24th

Id say Thigpen improved the offense.

Some can argue that the chiefs offense was changed to fit the way Thigpen plays. Well, If I am not mistaken, that gun offense didn't show up in the 2008 patriots as it did with Brady in 2007. Seems like both teams changed the plan for the offense based on the QB they had.

Cassel was in the Pats system for 3 years?

Thigpen only 1?

The whole point to all of this, is that getting Cassel would be a big waste. There is no need to even talk about it. Apple for an Apple.

Oh, and I apologize to you for whom I am replying to. I only read half of what you said. Your argument...it was all bable and no facts.

Lets see... when was the last time a weak-armed, inaccurate 6-foot nothing running back pretending to be a QB got his team deep into the playoffs? Well, that would be probably never. Sorry - I'm guessing at that, more "bable" and no facts, but I'm fairly sure most successful QBs in this league do not share his physical attributes. Perhaps you can take your big brain and look up that stat, Jethro, while you're reviewing other meaningless stats or looking for more Tyler Thigpen posters to hang on your bedroom wall next to the Eric Estrada collection.

Again, and for the last time Elmer - Thigpen is not going to take this team anywhere. Keeping him around if there IS a viable alternative available will only delay their progress. Within two years he'll be in th CFL or some other half-assed league where he belongs. Ask yourself this Jed, how many OTHER teams out there are rumored to be interested in Cassel? Not many, only the ones in desperate need of a QB - and you should take a step back, put down the airplane glue for a minute and consider the fact that the Chiefs are the frontrunners in this category for a good reason; because they DON'T have a QB!

Broker1

Of replying to my ignorant and childish name calling reply. I'm sorry, guess all the f-ing snow up here is starting to get to me.

Thigpen did a great job - a tremendous job given the mess he was tossed into. I just don't think he is the long-term answer at QB. I don't know, obviously, whether Cassel would work out any better, but I think we, hopefully can agree on this: It doesn't matter if it's Thigpen, Cassel or Mike Livingston back there - if that line doesn't pass block better, whoever the QB is, they're in for  long painful season.

In the end, Pioli will decide that in his opinion Cassel DOES have what it takes to be the franchise QB for the next 7 or 8-years - and they can agree on a price -  or he'll go in a different direction, perhaps knowing Cassel worked in NE, but won't in KC. Either way, the only thing I want is consistency at QB so they can move onto improving in other areas.

Broker1

Now that you have calmed down a little, I'll take shot at it. I've read all your comments on Thigpen on this thread and previous threads. Obviously, you have great arguments and you do a very good job of making your points.

But, I think what it boils down to for most of us in the "Thigpen Camp" is that we don't expect to go to the playoffs next year or even the year after necessarily. When you look at the numbers, the QB was one of the least of our problems. Most people I talk to want to get the trenches taken care of first. I'm concerned with any QB - even Brady succeeding in the existing situation.

We don't know that we can get a great QB next year or the year after - assuming we are still looking. But, we also don't know if we can get a great linebacker or a great defensive end or offensive tackle. All we really know is that unless we fix our most glaring problems, we're dead.

One last thing. I would much rather bring a QB into a situation that was more under control than our present one. He could get hurt or lose confidence right out of the gate. Let's build a foundation and give him some tools to work with first.

Personally, I'm not convinced that Thigpen can't be the guy. I kinda doubt it, but I am convinced that we have lots of other positions that desperately cry out for new blood.

I think it's a first-things-first issue. You feel more compelled to believe the QB must be first. Many of us think it may well be putting the cart before the horse.

Martin

But teams can and DO turn it around quickly - look at Atlanta last year and the Dolphins. Yes, they probably beefed up their line, and their D wasn't as bad as the Chiefs, but if you had to point to ONE reason in BOTH cases, it's the QB. We have a proven GM which is where it starts, and we'll get a good coach for what he wants to implement - and we're half way there. There is plenty of young talent on this team - Pioil and the soon-to-be head coach would not come here if they didn't believe that to be true.

I saw Cassel up here week after week, and  by the end of the year, there weren't many QBs in the league I'd take over him. You can say he flourished because of the "system" - if that's the case, then implement that "system" because it works.

But you're right - lots of hole where it matters most - the lines, but I think it's easier to find a good O-lineman in the 3rd-6th round or even get lucky with a defensive lineman in 2nd or 3rd than to find a franchise QB. Maybe sign a free agen DL...Is Cassel that guy? I don't know, but from the little I saw (15 games) he fits the mold for now. As much as it may be exciting to watch Thigpen run around back there, I want my QB PASSING the ball - and down field when opportunity presents itself...I'm not sure Thigpen is the guy for that, but I admit, I only saw him 3 or 4 games this year, so maybe he is - I'd certainly take him over Croyle or Huard, but long-term, he's most definitely not a prototypical QB who's had success in this league.

Broker1

"this offense scores with Thigpen" - then I suggest you stop. The Chiefs ranked 26th in the league in scoring out of 31; that's most definitely NOT scoring points. I'm sure even Thiglet himself would be too embarassed to say that about his impotent scoring ability.

People wake up. Herm had to go, and is gone. Thigpen also has to go and will be gone. He is not what any GM wants in a starting QB - not if they hope to win consistently in a league that requires a formidable passing attack - which Thigpen can not, nor will he ever provide. They will either find a way to get Cassel or they'll draft their franchise QB (Stafford) with the 3rd pick, either way, Thigpen is history.

Broker1

Ha Ha Ha! Good one! Why stop there? Let's ask for Cassel, Belichek, Brady (as backup), his girlfriend Gisel, the entire Kraft family net worth in hundred dollar bills and the keys to Foxboro statium FOR LJ while we're at it! Do you really think the Patriots would trade a guy they are about to franchise to the tune of $15M/year, the biggest free agent on the market and the best QB available by FAR for the walking clubhouse cancer known as LJ? No. LJ is not quite Belichek material, to put it mildly...and don't try to draw a Randy Moss analogy - Moss never acted like a woman-beating mouth-shooting a-hole like LJ has. LJ is worth maybe, MAYBE a 4th round pick or so - nothing more. He has worn out his welcome in this league, and he shot his load with his two big seasons. Lucky for him, he had a GM who was dumb enough to not know or chose to ignore what every other person on the planet knew to be true - that NOBODY comes back after that number of carries in a season (416), and is close to the same.

I've got news for you buddy - we (the Chiefs) HAVE been TRYING to "groom our own" for years - it's just been a dismal failure. Those guys that you mention - and others Huard, Deberg, Green, Bono, Grbac - are generally brought in because the clowns they're "grooming" suck. And one other note - Bono and Grbac were absolute howling successes next to anything the Chiefs have groomed since Lenny Dawson...

Broker1

4)  Chiefs trade Larry Johnson and one of their 2nd round picks (#34 or #?) to New England for Matt Cassel.  (NE could also throw in a late round cherry on top like a 5th or 6th rounder)

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Hi Guys, I'm a Pats fan and just reading some of the interest on Cassel here in KC.  I think there are a lot of good posts on here regarding Cassel but one of the constants I see is somehow throwing in LJ as if that is somehow sweetening the pot for the Patriots. 

The Patriots already have 5 running backs on the roster and had a respectable running game the entire season while their #1 back (Maroney) was out for almost the entire season.  Now certainly L.M. is still unproven but the Patriots are a pass first offence led by Tom Brady, Wes Welker and Randy Moss.  We had a guy who was 5th on our depth chart (BenJarvus Green Ellis) have near 100 yard rushing days when 3 of our other backs were out with injury.  The Patriots do not need a running back and they certainly aren't going to trade Cassel for LJ.  The idea that the Patriots would take a second, LJ and then throw in a pick of their own for Cassel is laughable and cannot be seriously considered.  That is not going to happen.

Look, I don't want to sound mean but you guys have to ask yourselves the following two questions:

1)  Why do all the KC fans want to send LJ to New England if he is such a prize?  It's not like you are saying "Oh Gee, I'd love to keep LJ around but we just need a QB so bad we have to give up this essential part of our team."  So the first question then is why does everyone want to get rid of LJ?

2)  Given that LJ is quite obviously a bum and all the fans in KC seem to see it, the second question you need to ask is: Is there any chance that Bill Belichick doesn't know that LJ is a bum?

 Anyway, I would love to see a deal w/ KC for Cassel.  I think KC is a great town, the Chiefs are a great team and the fans at Arrowhead always make me jealous because they are great fans, they have a great atmosphere, etc...  Given all that I'd love to see them successful over jerk fans like the Jets or Steelers have.  But LJ isn't nearly close to the right answer.  We took a chance on Randy Moss by only giving up a 4th round pick...we aren't going to give away a potential franchise player to try and rehabilitate LJs image.

and I'm just wondering, personally, outside of Jared Page and Brandon Flowers what "better" defensive players you're talking about.  Our defensive is just all around terrible (minus Jared Page and Brandon Flowers... Bernard Pollard is mediocre) and I can't see why we would trade any of our defensive players that played halfway decent when our defense is what we need to improve the most.

 At that same point, Matt Cassel is not the answer.  Like several other people have already pointed out, it isn't worth the gamble of spending a lot of money and/or draft picks/players on a Quarterback who's started 15 games in the last how many years.  Put Daunte Culpepper in as QB for the Patriots and I bet he would have won at least 11 games too, and that isn't saying much.

Whether Thigpen is the long-term answer, I don't know... I'd like to hope that he would be.  Even if he isn't though, our team has too many holes to fill before we should even be considering spending a lot of money or draft picks on a QB when we have a serviceable QB at the very least in Thigpen.  Work on rebuilding the defensive, tuning up our offensive line, getting rid of LJ and getting a solid #2 receiver...  We have too many other problems to fix to go after a high priced, huge risk of a Quarterback, whether that be Matt Cassel or a QB in the first round of the draft. Is everyone forgetting that Quinn Gray is also on our roster and that he played extremely well for Jacksonville when he was filling in for Garrard?  Getting a high-profile QB should be the least of our worries right now.

Uh... they "picked up steam" and steamrolled to a 1 and 9 record the rest of the way? Imagine what would have happened if they HADN'T picked up steam!

Uh..."A poor man's Big Ben"???

1. Big Ben is 6'4" - Thigpen is barely four foot tall

2. BB has a canon for an arm - Thiggy has a wet noodle

3. BB can hit his recievers - Thiggy, with a good throw, can hit the ground 3-yards in front of his intended target

4. BB finds ways to WIN games - Thigmeister knows only one thing - lose.

5. If BB is behind, he finds a way to win; Thiglet, once he falls behind can only watch the opposing team pull away, and ask himself repeatedly "am I really playing in the NFL?"

6. Thiglet can run - BB, well, he can't, but he moved pretty damn well in the pocket - which when you can do the other things a QB needs to do - is more than enough, and certainly FAR more important than having a QB who thinks he's an RB.

The Thigger is closer to a poor man's Kordell Stewart -  a very poor man.

Broker1